Posts by Guest with Questions

24

The JW lady came back/Who really is our Mediator?

by Guest with Questions in

jw
friends

continuation of my first post: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/132283/1.ashx.

this past tuesday the jw lady came back, which surprised me.

she came with her husband and i told them that it wasnt really fair (one against two).

Guest with Questions

Continuation of my first post: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/132283/1.ashx

This past Tuesday the JW lady came back, which surprised me. She came with her husband and I told them that it wasn’t really fair (one against two). I did feel that they twisted certain scripture to suit their needs plus the gentlemen kept going in a different direction unrelated to the topic we were discussing and I had to remind him a couple of times to go back to the original topic.

I hope that someone can answer me; what the JW’s really believe.

These were the questions I wanted to cover.

Who is the Alpha & Omega, the First & Last and Beg & End. I was dumbstruck with some of his answers.

Who is your Mediator which we never really covered. She said she answered me last time.

and the Locusts of Revelation which we never got to.

For this post I will start with Mediator

One lady three weeks ago said that Jesus is our Mediator. When I asked her again she said it was the Org. Asked another gentlemen and his wife last week: they said Jesus. Asked first lady again this week: she said Jesus. When I read them this article they were quiet and didn’t answer.

(Worldwide Security under the "Prince of Peace" (1986) p.10 - "Likewise, the Greater Moses, Jesus Christ, is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all mankind. He is the Mediator between his heavenly Father, Jehovah God, and the nation of spiritual Israel, which is limited to only 144,000 members.")

I also found this and will give it to the one gentlemen.

Watchtower 1979 April 1 p.31 "Is Jesus the "mediator" only for anointed Christians?…… So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the "mediator" only for anointed Christians.……The "great crowd" of "other sheep" that is forming today is not in that new covenant. However, by their associating with the "little flock" of those yet in that covenant they come under benefits that flow from that new covenant."

Watchtower 1979 November 15 p.27 Benefiting from "One Mediator Between God and Men""They recognize that they are not spiritual Israelites in the new covenant mediated by Jesus Christ, nor part of the "chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation."——1 Pet. 2:9. 24 Yet they do benefit from the operation of the new covenant. They benefit from this just as, in ancient Israel, the "alien resident" benefited from residing in among the Israelites who were in the Law covenant.—Ex. 20:10; Lev. 19:10, 33, 34; Rev. 7:9-15. 25 To keep in relationship with "our Savior, God," the "great crowd" needs to remain united with the remnant of spiritual Israelites."

Watchtower 1989 August 15 pp.30-31 Questions From Readers "Is Jesus the Mediator only for spirit-anointed Christians or for all mankind, since 1 Timothy 2:5, 6 speaks of him as the "mediator" who "gave himself a corresponding ransom for all"? The Bible contains both basic teachings and deep truths, which are solid food for study ……To grasp what Paul is saying, we must first appreciate that the Bible sets out two destinies for faithful humans: (1) perfect life on a restored earthly paradise and (2) life in heaven for Christ’s "little flock," numbering 144,000. Clearly, then, the new covenant is not a loose arrangement open to all mankind. It is a carefully arranged legal provision involving God and anointed Christians.This should help us to understand 1 Timothy 2:5, 6. Here the reference to "mediator" was made after the five other occurrences of the word in letters written earlier. Hence, Timothy would have understood Jesus’ mediatorship to be His legal role connected with the new covenant. ……Consequently, 1 Timothy 2:5, 6 is not using "mediator" in the broad sense common in many languages. It is not saying that Jesus is a mediator between God and all mankind. …… The apostle John referred to these at 1 John 2:2. But he indicated that others too will receive the benefit of Christ’s sacrifice: "He is a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins, yet not for ours only but also for the whole world’s."Those of ‘the whole world’ are all who will gain eternal life in a restored earthly paradise. Millions of such approved servants of God now have that earthly hope. ……"

So what do Jehovah Witnesses really believe? Is the above old light?

55

Why are people so afraid to question the authenticity of the Bible...

by zeroday in

jw
friends

for thousands of years people have taken the bible as the word of god.

what would you do if you found out that it was not.

how would your outlook on the world change.. .

Guest with Questions

because science is the study of nature and God is outside of nature

I don't think you can separate God from science.

It is important for you to go and look up the exact definition for the word "theory" as is used in science . I bring this up since it was a focus of your post. Until you have a full and proper grasp of how that word is used when talking about evolution, it is useless to discuss the subject of evolution.

If, as you say, the word theory in science is a fact, then I'm very confused. My understanding is that there are many theories today that conflict with each other. Which theory do you believe in? (these are just a few theories-now maybe some are obsolete and maybe some listed are duplicate, but worded differently, I wouldn't know)

Ekpyrotic Theory, Oscillatory Universe theory, Big Bang Theory,Lasma cosmology, String theory, Loop quantum gravity,Grand Unified Theory,Quantum mechanical theories,Varying speed of light theory

The Ekpyrotic Theory

55

Why are people so afraid to question the authenticity of the Bible...

by zeroday in

jw
friends

for thousands of years people have taken the bible as the word of god.

what would you do if you found out that it was not.

how would your outlook on the world change.. .

Guest with Questions

For me the "outstanding evidence leaving no room for doubt" is in the very non-random, bottom-up nature of evolution by natural selection, a very well-founded and solidly established theory of life on earth. The philosophy of creationism cannot hold a candle to it.

I don't have time today, because of Easter, to read all responses but this one caught my eye. I'm not picking on this particular person because quite a few people on this board believe this.

First what you state is a contradiction - outstanding evidence leaving no room for doubt - well founded and solidly established theory of life on earth.

Can someone show me this outstanding evidence. I've always been curious to know the theory of evolution. Can someone explain to me in simple terms what happened. If all things on earth evolved over a period of time, such as human beings, when does the evolution stop, or does it stop. I guess with randomness we will never know because randomness doesn't think; it doesn't care - if we survive as a human species or even if the universe continues to exist. It's all random; it does what it does - yet I see so many wondrous, intricate, complicated things that randomness could never explain.

I asked an atheist once what he believed and he said that was an oxymoron -atheist/belief. I don't see that. Everyone believes in something.

12

So many JW coming to my door/Who is Mediator for Great Crowd?

by Guest with Questions in

jw
friends

ive had a number of witnesses come to my door in the last year.

i would guess that my mother requested the visits but i dont know for sure.

i first had two young men come to the door last summer and we talked for quite a while.

Guest with Questions

Thank you all for your replies. I will come back to respond but today I'm in the middle of making Easter dinner.

Everyone have a wonderful Easter Day!

55

Why are people so afraid to question the authenticity of the Bible...

by zeroday in

jw
friends

for thousands of years people have taken the bible as the word of god.

what would you do if you found out that it was not.

how would your outlook on the world change.. .

Guest with Questions

What would you do if you found out that it was NOT.

What would you do if you found out that it WAS!

and spare me your "proofs" that there is a god, sorry there ain't no evidence for such a critter.

Can you show me proof that God doesn't exist?

I'm not saying this in anger or even annoyance. I think both are legitimate questions and yes, I am a Christian.

12

So many JW coming to my door/Who is Mediator for Great Crowd?

by Guest with Questions in

jw
friends

ive had a number of witnesses come to my door in the last year.

i would guess that my mother requested the visits but i dont know for sure.

i first had two young men come to the door last summer and we talked for quite a while.

Guest with Questions

I’ve had a number of witnesses come to my door in the last year. I would guess that my mother requested the visits but I don’t know for sure.

I first had two young men come to the door last summer and we talked for quite a while. They couldn’t answer my questions and said they would come back. They never did.

In the fall another gentlemen came and I asked a few questions. He said he would come back and leave the information in the mail box which he did, but he didn’t answer my questions. He never came back.

A few weeks ago a lady came to my door. I asked her a number of questions. She said she would come back but I will be really surprised if she showed up.

Oh, the gentlemen that didn’t come back last fall did come back last week with his wife. I mentioned to them that another lady was coming back on the 10 th . I thought they were organized. Why am I getting these people coming to my door in such a short period of time?

What I find is that all these people are not up front with me. They all seem like sincere, kind people but they talk in circles. I can’t get a straight answer from any of them.

I asked the one lady who her Mediator was and she said Jesus. So I asked her again and she said that she wanted to simplify it but that her Mediator was not Jesus but the Organization. Why couldn’t she have said that right from the beginning?

When I mentioned this to the gentlemen and his wife, they said that it was Jesus who was our Mediator and that this other lady probably was setting things up a certain way that they weren’t sure of but that this other lady was very knowledgable.

This is just one of the many questions I have. My understanding is that the org states that Jesus is Mediator only for the 144,000 and that the Mediator for the Great Crowd is the organization.

(Worldwide Security under the "Prince of Peace"" (1986) p.10 - ""Likewise, the Greater Moses, Jesus Christ, is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all mankind. He is the Mediator between his heavenly Father, Jehovah God, and the nation of spiritual Israel, which is limited to only 144,000 members.") Watchtower 1979 April 1 p.31

"Is Jesus the "mediator" only for anointed Christians?

…… So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the "mediator" only for anointed Christians.

……The "great crowd"" of "other sheep"" that is forming today is not in that new covenant. However, by their associating with the ""little flock"" of those yet in that covenant they come under benefits that flow from that new covenant."

Watchtower 1979 November 15 p.27 Benefiting from ""One Mediator Between God and Men""

""They recognize that they are not spiritual Israelites in the new covenant mediated by Jesus Christ, nor part of the ""chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation.""——1 Pet. 2:9.

24 Yet they do benefit from the operation of the new covenant. They benefit from this just as, in ancient Israel, the ""alien resident"" benefited from residing in among the Israelites who were in the Law covenant.——Ex. 20:10; Lev. 19:10, 33, 34; Rev. 7:9-15.

25 To keep in relationship with ""our Savior, God,"" the ""great crowd"" needs to remain united with the remnant of spiritual Israelites.""

Yet the bible states: 1 Tim.2:5,6; "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all"

Is the above quote wrong or have they changed this (new light)?

Some might say don't answer the door when they come. If this lady does come next week I doubt that I will answer the door again after that. It feels like they don't really listen to you. They just talk over you. I know I can't change their minds. They are convinced that they have the truth.

It just breaks my heart that my mother falls for this. I really thought that I had her thinking. When I asked her about the Alpa & Omega she did say that she did question it, plus she believed that the Mediator was Jesus. When I asked her a few days later if she had asked her husband (who is an Elder) she just said that she totally believed in the Organization. I do know that I can get into trouble with her husband if I ask questions and he may not allow me to see her.

116

Convince me

by Liza in

i am highly considering becoming a jehovah's witness.

i have been raised in the congregration, but left it when i was a child because my mom left too, but we still retatined the core belifs including the ressurection and the blasphemous pagan influence on mainstream churches.

my mom has recently returned to the congregation, and it has helped her a lot.

Guest with Questions

Hi Liza

First, I’m not going to tell you not to join the Jehovah Witness Organization. That is totally your decision. I just hope you become informed before you make that step.

I’m not a witness and never have been. I think many on this site who are x-witnesses can better tell you what they experienced.

I can only tell you what I have learned about this org. Because of my mother (who has been a witness for over 30 years) I felt the need to find out what this org was all about. For me, the more I study my own bibles (NIV, KJV) the more I feel that this org is very wrong on many issues.

You have made a number of comments which I believe are wrong and unfair.

Jehovah's Witnesses use an edition of the Bible that is translated directly from Hebrew and Greek to modern English. Other churches use one that has been courrupted through centuries of Catholic papacy and censorship.

Can you show proof that this is true or were you told this by a witness?

The NWT is unique to the JW org just like the Book of Mormon is unique to them (by the way, they also they claim that they have the sole truth and that all other religions are false)

I asked a number of witnesses who the translators were and none could tell me because they didn’t believe in disclosing the names because it shouldn’t be about the translators. My feeling is, if you go to a doctor you want to make sure he is qualified; that if he tells you his name and qualifications, it doesn’t fill him with pride but puts you at ease that he is qualified.

The New World Translation committee consisted of four members of the Jehovah’s Witness Organization.

Nathan Knorr

: President of the Watchtower Society (no academic training in any Biblical language)

Fred Franz:

(no academic degree in any Biblical language, though he did study Greek for two years at the University of Cincinnati)

Albert Schroeder:

(no academic training in any Biblical language)

George Gangas:

(no academic training in any Biblical language)

Numerous qualified Greek scholars of international renown have voiced serious reservations about the New World Translation. Dr. Bruce Metzger of Princeton University (arguably the world’s foremost living Greek scholar) calls many of the New World Translation’s renderings "erroneous" . Dr. Julius R. Mantey (co-author of A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament and A Hellenistic Greek Reader) called it "a shocking mistranslation". Dr Robert Countess concluded, in his PhD dissertation on the New World Translation, "it [the New World Translation] must be viewed as a radically biased piece of work. At some points it is actually dishonest". Dr. Julius R. Mantey was quoted out of context in Watchtower literature as though he supported John 1 and the word was a god, which he doesn’t believe and he wanted a retraction which I don’t know if he ever got.There were a number of other scholars who were quoted out of context.

Contrary to what a witness said to me, the scholars of the KJV are known. Some are listed on this site: http://www.allabouttruth.org/king-james-version-faq.htm

You really need to decide which bible you’re going to accept - the New World Translation or all the other bibles accepted by mainline churches (KJV, NIV etc) These bibles are very different from the NWT regardless what the witnesses say. If you have the NWT and some other versions check them out for yourself. Check the Internet for comparison of different bible translations (just make sure they are a reliable site and cross check to make sure your bibles truly say the same thing)

But don’t take my word for it. Don’t take the organizations word for it either. Look into it yourself apart from the org. before you commit to them. Once you are baptized it will become very difficult for you to leave and that would be very tragic if you have family members still in the org.

Good Luck

38

Watchtower "Worship"

by Sunspot in

let's discuss "watchtower worship"....or the understanding of the idea of "worship".

this is defined as "a reverence for god" in my dictionary.

the cold and clinical buildings that they "worship" in,

Guest with Questions

It dawned on me not too long ago that my mother worships the Organization. So this post really caught my eye. Not too long ago she said that if this organization is wrong then there is no God. She also stated "Where would I go?" obviously referring to a scripture. (John 6:68) What the scripture really states is: What Peter said to Jesus was "Lord" whom shall we go to? She also mentioned about light getting brighter. What they believed 20 or 30 years ago might not be true anymore and so I asked what the organization believes today, they might not believe in 20 or 30 years from now?. Maybe one day the light will get brighter and they might realize that the "Christian Church" was right all along? (I doubt it). For an organization that, what my mother believes is the sole channel of communication through which God speaks, they sure made a lot of mistakes. Does God make mistakes or change His mind? I don't believe so. The excuse that the people are only human and that the light is getting brighter just doesn't sit right with me. When a prophet speaks in the name of God (which they did) and it doesn't come true, that is a False Prophet. It doesn't say if the person or organization prophesies in the name of God and it doesn't come true and they acknowledge that they were wrong, then that isn't a False Prophet. My mother says the organization is very honest because they admitted when they were wrong. Heathen made a good point about the "Truth" Obviously the organization's truth 50 years ago, 25 years ago, last year, 1 year from now, 25 years from now etc is ever changing. I believe in an Absolute Truth-unchanging truth. I do believe that on a personal level we start to see things more clearly but truth itself doesn't change as with this organization. As you can see I am frustrated. I have tried to stay calm with my mother but a week ago it became very difficult and told her that I had no problem with the people but that the Governing Body would pay dearly for deceiving their people. I know that I said too much. I can't change her mind and I have to accept that.

12

Questions: What is the Sacred Secret? and Locusts of Abyss?

by Guest with Questions in

jw
friends

i have a copy of may 1,1998 watchtower.

when i heard a few years ago about the witnesses believing that they were the locusts i thought it was just a rumour; that even for a jw org it was too far fetched.

a few weeks ago i read about it again on this site.

Guest with Questions

Thanks to everyone who responded to my question. So it seems that, according to the witnesses, the great mystery or sacred secret was revealed in this organization? I used my Concordance to look up some scripture and it seems to reveal what I thought, that Jesus is the mystery that is revealed in the NT. These are just two.

Col 1:26 The mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations but is now disclosed to the saints. (who I believe are all those who believe) To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. Col 2:2 My purpose is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

I agree with RevFrank that the Holy Spirit will teach us. We don't need any organization to teach us what the meaning of the bible is. The book is available to all of us.

As for the Locusts of the Abyss. I have to say that I am confused about this. Some seem to think that it refers to Satan but others (Catholic Encyclopedia) don't seem to know what or who it refers to.

I admit that I'm totally frustrated with this whole organization because my mother is involved in it and I can't show her the errors. She will say that the people are human and the new light getting brighter.

12

Questions: What is the Sacred Secret? and Locusts of Abyss?

by Guest with Questions in

jw
friends

i have a copy of may 1,1998 watchtower.

when i heard a few years ago about the witnesses believing that they were the locusts i thought it was just a rumour; that even for a jw org it was too far fetched.

a few weeks ago i read about it again on this site.

Guest with Questions

I have a copy of May 1,1998 Watchtower. When I heard a few years ago about the witnesses believing that they were the locusts I thought it was just a rumour; that even for a JW org it was too far fetched. A few weeks ago I read about it again on this site. So I decided to asked my mother if she had a copy of it. Surprisingly she gave me the copy. Sure enough it was true - that in 1998 they believed this. When my mother asked what I was looking for I told her I wasn't sure. She then mentioned about the light getting brighter. I assume that what I would read might not be what the witnesses still believe because they have new light. Do they still believe that they are the locusts. My understanding is that the locusts worship Abaddon who is the devil or a demon but who they claimed was Jesus?

Also she mentioned that she was overjoyed by what she found out last week about the Sacred Secret. She was about to tell me but then said that she didn't know enough to talk to me about it. This confuses me. How can she be overjoyed about something that she doesn't totally understand. She did mention that it had to with the annointed.